Comments on: Who’s “Beyond the Pale?”, Part 1

By: Isidor Farash {a.k.a. Professor Cornelius Trollstein}

Isidor Farash {a.k.a. Professor Cornelius Trollstein} — Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:35:53 +0000

Ode to the Troll:
Me admit it. Me are a Trollstein, far worse then even a Goldstein.
Me visit the proletariat areas in order to contract Venereal decease deliberately and to spread it throughout the members of the inner-Party.
Except that . . . being a troll, no one wanted to do me.
They did not know . . that once you go troll, it never gets old.

By: Isidor Farash {a.k.a. Professor Cornelius Trollstein}

Isidor Farash {a.k.a. Professor Cornelius Trollstein} — Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:10:35 +0000

Peter H.:
The inevitable fundamentalist Stalinist censorship drive has begun in earnest. Too difficult is it to read the author’s name and skip down. That would NOT fulfill the internal longing to control OTHER people’s thoughts.
The fact is that Mr. Plitnick is himself rather repetitive in his postings. If this blog were to be confined to ‘approved’ thought and speech, what would remain is an often sanblusitic and certainly predictable mix of ‘point’ and re-confirmation of those points. Essentially a ‘mutual admiration’ society, reserved exclusively for self-deprecating (arm-chair) “intellectuals”.
):>>>={

By: Peter H

Peter H — Sat, 03 Mar 2007 20:36:55 +0000

Mitchell,

I enjoy your analysis, but you really need to think about moderating the comment section. I don’t know about your other readers, but there’s nothing more boring to me than long-winded tangents about the meaning of madrasses or neocons. Maybe you can set up a discussion forum on the JVP website where people can blow off steam on these kinds of topics. Right now, the comments section is not fulfilling its mission of fostering intelligent debate.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 02:39:29 +0000

I’m glad you “called out” Youdovin on his outrageous characaterization of JVP. Actually what he meant to say was that any Jewish group not espousing a pro-Zionist position was “beyond the pale.” This too is outrageous. While I’m a progressive Zionist I don’t ask JVP to be. All I ask of any group before I ally with it on the I-P question is that it not adhere to deliberately polemical or overtly extremist views that demonize one side or the other in this conflict. JVP satisfies this admirably.

By: John Baker

John Baker — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:11:40 +0000

I frankly do not see that a single difference of such a nature can create an entirely new type of conservative.

The term was first used by Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz and others to refer to themselves as being an entirely new kind of conservative. I think everybody had pretty much figured out they were Jews, don’t you? So, this was obviously not a code term for “Jew [wink, wink, nudge, nudge].” Let’s put it this way. If it’s code for “Jew” it’s a pretty lousy one because a great many neoconservatives are obviously not Jews. It is actually a pretty darn good code word for “red state fascist,” however.

By: Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein]

Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein] — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:28:16 +0000

Like most men, we can be useful when needed and a nuisance the rest of the time.
Its really not that difficult to read the author’s name and skip down past the post. It’s when people begin to object to OTHER people reading the “Trolstein’s” stylings wherein the more typical nature of the ‘NeoLouis’ [pronounced: Neo-Louie] shackles become brandished.
):>>>={
(Universal symbol of Troll power)

By: brenda

brenda — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:47:26 +0000

Trolls can be very useful for throwing up talking points. This one gave Fred Schlomka and John Baker the opportunity to masterfully address several related issues. I am full of admiration for their posts. The downside to trolls is when they flood the threads with the same complaints, wearing out serious readers and posters, obstructing forward motion of the issue.

Mitchell Plitnick’s essay is marvellous, both parts 1 & 2. I wish him well, he is one of those who make one proud to be an American again. Much hope offered by way of the divestment action.

By: Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein]

Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein] — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:24:11 +0000

You wrote:
“It has taken me about six years to get a handle on what is meant by the term “neocon”
Thank you for enforcing my point so eloquently.
If it had any real definable meaning, it would not take even 6 weeks for the standard definition to become a part of the human lexicon. Remember “Branjolina”? That term took all of six minutes to populate the “Borg” collective. So, I submit that Neocon is a still a code term for something. Perhaps a “Nazi” who is most probably NOT of Germanic heritage.
By the way, Jean Kirkpatrick recently died, so I guess she is now a . . “Post-neo-cono-mortumo” in the original oldo-Latin. Now I digress.
“being interested in an imperialist foreign policy . . “
Formally a ‘leftist’, who converted in all but this feature. What if, when they were still leftists, they believed an a broad U.S. role in world affairs? Wouldn’t the more appropriate term then be “Left-o-cons”? Was Cheney ever a leftist? News to me.
I frankly do not see that a single difference of such a nature can create an entirely new type of conservative. While it’s true that people like Pat Buchanan tend to oppose most (if not all) U.S. actions outside the USA properly, remember that he was a senior foreign policy adviser to Richard Nixon, during the last few years of the Vietnam War.

By: John Baker

John Baker — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:37:16 +0000

It has taken me about six years to get a handle on what is meant by the term “neocon” but I don’t think it is code for “Jew.” A number of people who call themselves “neoconservatives” are Jews, including some prominent members of the group, but roughly an equal number who claim that name are Gentiles, including Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wm. Bennett, Ashcroft, Chalabi, Khalilzad, Jean Kirkpatrick, Fukiyama, etc. Besides, there are many Jews who are liberals, libertarians, and ordinary conservatives.

The “neo-” part referred to the fact that these people were originally leftists but converted. However, I don’t think all neoconservatives started out on the left. Ronald Reagan did, and I would probably call him a neocon. As I see it, neocons differ from other kinds of conservatives in mainly being interested in an imperialist foreign policy in which we establish a Pax Americana across the globe. Neoconservatism in this full-blown form is a post Cold War phenomenon, I believe, and so it is really post-Reagan. From what I can tell the current crop of neocons are more aptly called radicals than conservatives, in that they don’t talk much about small government. They seem to uphold constant war as an ideal, and for that reason have been called Trotskyites. But in any case, I don’t think “neocon” is code for “Jew.”

In my book most of them are “cons” and their lies and deceitfulness in the past six years have qualified them to be permanently exiled from policy making in this country.

Ah, but we digress….

By: Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein]

Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein--now Trollstein] — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 15:02:46 +0000

Mr. Jim (without a last name):
You wrote:
“Every blog has at least one. They’re called trolls.
From my reading of this blog, I’ve concluded that Isidor Farash [formally Goldstein] is our very own local troll.”
I come here because I feel that the popular positions being promoted are often unjust. I really don’t have any expectations of altering the beliefs of the chorus, although, stranger things have happened.
Your post has added exactly nothing to the discussion.
If I am ignored, it won’t effect my opinions on the subjects being posted by the Web Master. Nor would I stop posting them.
“ . . . distracting the rest of us from more important business.”
Of what? Agreeing with one another??
“Barack Obama attended a madrassa, “learning every word of the Qur’an by heart,” no less, (without explaining why, EVEN IF TRUE, it would disqualify him from being President) or the equally discredited accusation that Chavez’s remarks were targeted at Jews”
Reported by Fox news. I did not say it should disqualify him from anything. I leave that for the reader to decide. I did NOT mention that his middle name is ‘Hussein’ (also reported by Fox news) because such an item would not have any relevance to any issue that I can think of. However, viewed overall, my post was an inference that the ‘common consciousness’ of the world has been shifting in the same direction, including the deionization and disempowerment of Jewish persons, the dramatic increase in Anti-Semitic attacks and assaults and more.
“ . . . discredited accusation that Chavez’s remarks were targeted at Jews”
Are you for real? Me Troll?
What OTHER ethnic minority is traditionally stereotyped (for thousands of years) as the:
“same ones who crucified Christ … took all the world’s wealth for themselves”?
Let me guess . . . THE NEOCONS???
By the way, you never answered my questions on that subject. What makes a the fabled “Neocon” any different then Ronald Reagan?? I forgot, your ignoring me so that I hobble back under my bridge. Never mind.
Re: madrassa school:
They teach the student to memorize the Qur’an word-for-word. By heart. That’s what they do. A school of physics teaches the students quantum math and differential equations. A madrassa school teaches intense Qur’an study. I have read the Qur’an a few times myself. That does not disqualify me for running for president. I just believe that Mr. Obama’s attendance of this study, particularly at such a young age, should be one of the considerations for people when they write checks and vote. For some voters, his curriculum would be a great advantage to their decisions. What do you call those people, who consider that Islamic schooling as an advantage? Anti-trolls??
PS (as further illustrations of my above posted statements):>
“Iran: U.S., Israel to blame for world’s problems:
Ahmadinejad makes remarks during show of support for Sudan government.”
“There is no place in the world that suffers from divisions and wars unless America or the Zionists’ fingerprints are seen there,” Ahmadinejad told his audience in Farsi translated into Arabic. . . We have to pay attention to the devils’.”
Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir declared support for Iran’s nuclear ambitions while Ahmadinejad said Iran viewed Sudan’s progress as important as its own.”
Permanent members of the United Nations Security Council and Germany have begun discussing a new round of sanctions on Iran for failing to halt uranium enrichment by late February.
Meanwhile, the International Criminal Court’s chief prosecutor accused a junior member of al-Bashir’s Cabinet and another suspect of committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Darfur.
The Sudanese government has rejected the allegations and said it would not hand the men over for trial.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17396804/
Darfur, by the way has a majority Muslim population. Their social/political misfortune is solely that they are Blacks. Long forgotten from memory are the approximately 2-million slaughtered Blacks from Southern Sudan, along with those who have been sold into the (mainly Arab) slave markets in the North. Their compounded misfortune was the fact that they were Christians (and ancient ones at that). Their (Nubian) ancestors were the first Christian nation/state to engage in a formal peace treaty with the Islamic caliphate. While Rome was at war with Islam, these peaceful souls protected their Muslim minorities and their houses of worship. Amazing that all you peaceniks, including Mr. Carter, have all but ignored this ongoing genocide for decades. Not cause these people are Blacks but more probably because of whom their adversaries are. Instead, our attention is redirected, over and over, to a place where the ‘adversaries’ are far easier to condemn.
Lastly: Thanks Mr. Baker. I herewith do my troll-voodoo in your favor. Feelin it yet?